Love the color. Alternative leg options if one does not possess a lathe? I guess I could fall back to the octagons and just keep reducing facets till I get a roundish leg...?
It looks like the 6.75" height is due to the wire legs, pan depth looks to be closer to the 2 inches you'd like. Might need to do a mod or two with some tin snips, but the price sure seems right.
Some available on eBay for even less, but haven't found one with a 6" width.
If you need something more robust, a galvanized steel wire trough might do though they are generally square profile (6" x 6", e.g.). See McMaster-Carr.
Well, I expected that your link for the 1/2" dowel sizing would lead to one of their chair devils and I was surprised to see what looked just like their tapered tenon cutter. I have the large one for cutting leg tenons, but I see now that the smaller sizes have an option for a curved blade to make dowels. However, I would think these blades would take some tweaking to get the diameter just right. I keep on learning new stuff here! Thank you!!
Do you think this works better than their more expensive "dowel maker"?
You said you weren't happy with the finish the 1/2" Lee Valley powered tenon cutter left. Do you think you got a dud, or is the mini version just not as nice as its full sized brethren?
Curious on the seat shape and wood. My first impression of this seat from your post a few months ago is it looks like a Windsor wide shield seat (C-Arm or Boston Fanback Arm) with the underside scooped. Did you find this to be the case in studying the chair. You found the original to be Ash and I assume given most vernacular chair themes...it's what the maker had. I know Mike Dunbar was alway adamant about using eastern pine for seats as it was softer on the rump and the hardwood sticks would cut into it for a better hold. Given this is a painted chair did you go with a hardwood to be faithful to the original? Love the chair and agree on Jason's adze it a pleasure to use. I have a longer handled Barr also but Jason's gives a nice flat bottom.
This is the only chair seat I've seen that isn't just mostly flat on the bottom, with a wee-ish underbevel. The complexity makes me wish for a 3D rendering where I can spin it around on all axis to really get a feel for it.
I have 4 sizes of soaking trays from the Home Shop. Copper is better than galvanized. Galvanized will leave iron stains on some woods, and you'll need to use oxalic acid to remove the staining. I like a hinged lid over removable. A hinged lid lets the water that condenses on the top roll back into the tray. A removable lid just spreads that water all over your shop.
The online store at the Home Shop disappeared a few months ago. And no one has answered the phone for a while. I hope they're all ok.
Check a farm feed store, or Chewy.com. You can get a 4’ long galvanized chicken feed trough for about $25. May need to solder some seams to seal it up.
I do all of my bending with boiling water. I've never owned a steambox. I aim for 180 degree water, which is most often cited for making lignin pliable. I don't know if it's scientific, but it works. Tighter bends require more time. I leave 1-3/4" squares with a tight bend in the vat for 4 hours. My guess is that half that time would work, but better safe than sorry. I fold a moving blanket on the vat's lid for insulation.
Hotplates don't seem to want to boil water. Probably a safety thing. They cut out and on. With a 48 inch vat, I use three hotplates. With all the cycling on and off, at least one is always going, and usually two.
Bending needs heat and water, and the sources don't matter. Green wood has higher water content than dried. Dried works great -- you just need some time to get moisture back in there while in the vat, or presoaking in room temperature water. I experimented with a PVC bender that electricians use for bending conduit. Essentially more heat and pretty dry wood, and the bends were epic fails.
I crank up the induction stovetop to 460°, but that barely brings the water to a boil in the center of the vat. The water in the ends gets to 140° F. Typically I put the sticks in the vat for an hour. Then I remove them and pre-bend them (sometimes called limbering). Then I put them back in the vat for 30 minutes. Then I do the bend.
The vat has room for about six bends, so some of them steam for a few hours before getting limbered.
After an hour in the form, we screw a batten to the scraps at the ends of the hands and take them out of the form for the next bend. Then the bends go into a "kiln" – a box made of insulating foamboard and heated with a lizard lamp. I have holes poked in the kiln to keep the temperature at 120° F. After a day in the kiln, the bends are usually at equilibrium. We remove the screwed-on battens with little springback. You don't even have to use the kiln. If I'm not in a hurry, I just let the bends sit around for a few weeks until they are dry.
I don't claim to be an expert at steambending. I have done quite a bit of it. But I haven't become scientific about the process. Heat the wood. Bend it a bit. Heat it some more. Bend it with a strap to prevent the wood from failing. Dry it.
The technique above gives me a high success rate – about 90 percent with red oak. Higher with white oak.
“Need” an adze? And a travisher? And a scorp? What are the makeshift options?
Love the color. Alternative leg options if one does not possess a lathe? I guess I could fall back to the octagons and just keep reducing facets till I get a roundish leg...?
A round leg would be fine!
This might do the job for your steam box pan:
https://miller-mfg.com/products/reel-top-poultry-range-feeder?variant=45586300633390
It looks like the 6.75" height is due to the wire legs, pan depth looks to be closer to the 2 inches you'd like. Might need to do a mod or two with some tin snips, but the price sure seems right.
Some available on eBay for even less, but haven't found one with a 6" width.
If you need something more robust, a galvanized steel wire trough might do though they are generally square profile (6" x 6", e.g.). See McMaster-Carr.
Well, I expected that your link for the 1/2" dowel sizing would lead to one of their chair devils and I was surprised to see what looked just like their tapered tenon cutter. I have the large one for cutting leg tenons, but I see now that the smaller sizes have an option for a curved blade to make dowels. However, I would think these blades would take some tweaking to get the diameter just right. I keep on learning new stuff here! Thank you!!
Do you think this works better than their more expensive "dowel maker"?
You said you weren't happy with the finish the 1/2" Lee Valley powered tenon cutter left. Do you think you got a dud, or is the mini version just not as nice as its full sized brethren?
It's cutting profile is different than the big ones. So the tenons were super coarse.
Do you have one?
I don't have one, which is why I was curious. Thanks for saving me the heartache!
Chris, As to the vats, your local sheet metal shop would make one up easily and it should'nt cost much. Michael
Curious on the seat shape and wood. My first impression of this seat from your post a few months ago is it looks like a Windsor wide shield seat (C-Arm or Boston Fanback Arm) with the underside scooped. Did you find this to be the case in studying the chair. You found the original to be Ash and I assume given most vernacular chair themes...it's what the maker had. I know Mike Dunbar was alway adamant about using eastern pine for seats as it was softer on the rump and the hardwood sticks would cut into it for a better hold. Given this is a painted chair did you go with a hardwood to be faithful to the original? Love the chair and agree on Jason's adze it a pleasure to use. I have a longer handled Barr also but Jason's gives a nice flat bottom.
This is the only chair seat I've seen that isn't just mostly flat on the bottom, with a wee-ish underbevel. The complexity makes me wish for a 3D rendering where I can spin it around on all axis to really get a feel for it.
I have 4 sizes of soaking trays from the Home Shop. Copper is better than galvanized. Galvanized will leave iron stains on some woods, and you'll need to use oxalic acid to remove the staining. I like a hinged lid over removable. A hinged lid lets the water that condenses on the top roll back into the tray. A removable lid just spreads that water all over your shop.
The online store at the Home Shop disappeared a few months ago. And no one has answered the phone for a while. I hope they're all ok.
The seat looks like a tsunami coming at you!
For steam bending pieces shorter than 24" I got a salmon poacher at restaurant supply place. They do make longer ones for big fish, or stick chairs.
Regarding metal vats for soaking/steaming, I'm using a tabletop restaurant serving food warmer for bending guitar sides... works great.
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/avantco-bmfw4-46-electric-bain-marie-buffet-countertop-food-warmer-with-4-half-size-wells-1750w-120v/177BMFW4.html
They run about $350 new but can be found used fairly easily.
Check a farm feed store, or Chewy.com. You can get a 4’ long galvanized chicken feed trough for about $25. May need to solder some seams to seal it up.
Thank you!!
That is setsy.
can't wait for the plans. have a white oak log to get everything split from but the seat.
Do you heat the water to boiling in the vat? Does heating the wood this way require a longer time in the heat than steaming?
I do all of my bending with boiling water. I've never owned a steambox. I aim for 180 degree water, which is most often cited for making lignin pliable. I don't know if it's scientific, but it works. Tighter bends require more time. I leave 1-3/4" squares with a tight bend in the vat for 4 hours. My guess is that half that time would work, but better safe than sorry. I fold a moving blanket on the vat's lid for insulation.
Hotplates don't seem to want to boil water. Probably a safety thing. They cut out and on. With a 48 inch vat, I use three hotplates. With all the cycling on and off, at least one is always going, and usually two.
Bending needs heat and water, and the sources don't matter. Green wood has higher water content than dried. Dried works great -- you just need some time to get moisture back in there while in the vat, or presoaking in room temperature water. I experimented with a PVC bender that electricians use for bending conduit. Essentially more heat and pretty dry wood, and the bends were epic fails.
I crank up the induction stovetop to 460°, but that barely brings the water to a boil in the center of the vat. The water in the ends gets to 140° F. Typically I put the sticks in the vat for an hour. Then I remove them and pre-bend them (sometimes called limbering). Then I put them back in the vat for 30 minutes. Then I do the bend.
The vat has room for about six bends, so some of them steam for a few hours before getting limbered.
After an hour in the form, we screw a batten to the scraps at the ends of the hands and take them out of the form for the next bend. Then the bends go into a "kiln" – a box made of insulating foamboard and heated with a lizard lamp. I have holes poked in the kiln to keep the temperature at 120° F. After a day in the kiln, the bends are usually at equilibrium. We remove the screwed-on battens with little springback. You don't even have to use the kiln. If I'm not in a hurry, I just let the bends sit around for a few weeks until they are dry.
I don't claim to be an expert at steambending. I have done quite a bit of it. But I haven't become scientific about the process. Heat the wood. Bend it a bit. Heat it some more. Bend it with a strap to prevent the wood from failing. Dry it.
The technique above gives me a high success rate – about 90 percent with red oak. Higher with white oak.
Thanks for laying out your process.
Short sticks are 13" long but long sticks are 13" long?
Obvious typo. Sorry. Will fix it.
29” sounds more longerer. 🙃